Logs

**Dratheus** · by **Dratheus** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:04 am

Creds to Pu'd for the title. Well, basically, me and Pud' were chatting on...chat, and I thought up an idea for a new "political system", as Pud' called it. Pud' then offered a ton of ideas and input, and we ended up coming up with a pretty airtight "Utopia", in which a new system would be in place; or so we think.

Well, here's the summary of what we came up with. If I missed anything, hopefully Pud' will catch it. And if we still miss things, or you have points to bring up, we'll try to fill in the holes, and I'll add it to the summary. (Unless someone wants to write a better one after a while...XD) Also, I'll post the logs of the original chat here if anyone wants to read, though, due to Yit's comment, you should all be informed that the first half, about, is speculation, and in the later half we correct ourselves and get a better idea of things. So read all of it, or not at all. Anyway. Summary:

For this part of the summary, we are assuming that the system is already in place, and is running well.

The Earth is under one government, and works similar to a democracy, in that the “leaders” are elected by the people, by the majority.
There is no money. Everyone is on equal footing, and everything we have today, product-wise, is still here. (ie, houses, games, tvs, electricity, etc) This system is based around the idea that people should be able to live their lives as they choose; in today’s society, that can be quite hard to achieve, and in the system I am describing, people still cannot live their lives exactly as they choose, but I believe that they can come closer to doing so. Jobs will still exist, simply because things need to get done. Though without money, why would people want to work? Well, they still have to work, but they will have to work less, is the idea. Basically, there will be a system for working similar to jury duty, in which people are called to work for, say, months at a time, maybe a year, depending. These people will work, and when their “jury duty” is over, other people will take their place. However, an issue arises; what of professions in which a lot of training is involved? Well, instead of having everyone be elected to do any job, people will be assessed for the beginning of their life; this, along with their personal desires, will be taken into account as to what they will be. This way, a large group of people will still work in “shifts”, but they will all be trained to do so. So, we still have things getting done, but without the issue of money.
There are also jobs that will be more permanent than others. These jobs will be rewarded, in a sense, perhaps through prestige, or medals, or something of the like.

Though people will still have to work, they will now have much more time to do what they enjoy, without the costs of whatever their hobby is. This will also, hopefully, cut down on crime rates with time. After all, in a system where everything is available, why steal? There will still be police officers though, to deal with any problems that may arise. (including other things, such as traffic, and the like.) The government will also keep weapons on hand for any BIG situations that arise, though will be used as a last resort.

Of course, there will be those who oppose this system, and there is an allowance for this. Those who do not wish to join this system, will simply remain in their old system, in a separate location in which money still exists, along with regular jobs. They will be allowed to trade with the “majority”, who are in the system. And it’s hoped that, over time, people would eventually see the efficiency in the new system, and become a part of it. The “minority”, those not in the system, will have a separate government, and their own printing press for money. If this “minority” is smart, they will realize that they can live in harmony with the “majority”.

At first there would be many issues with this new system, but the idea is that over time they would solve themselves. At first, money may still need to exist, depending on how this system develops, for example. And people may still be greedy, and take more than what they really need, and at first an allotment would be needed, though it’s hoped that they will eventually realize that this is unneeded, much as stealing things would be unneeded, given that everyone would have the same opportunities. This system would take years, maybe generations to successfully implement correctly, but in the end, it would be much more efficient than the one we have. The big issue that prevents it, of course, is humanity’s failure to see that what we have now isn’t exactly the best by any means, and other stuff like that.

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Logs

And that's what we have thus far! Now...DISCUSS!

EDIT: Our goal is create a working system. So if you're going to point out one part that won't work, see if you can think of a solution to it. On the other hand, if you find fault with the whole thing, then give examples.

**Yitik** · by **Yitik** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:25 am

I only read the first half (you really should, like, explain it, using something other than a full IRC chatlog), but it does just sound like you reinvented communism. Utopian socialism, it's sometimes called. And yeah...it works in small communities, but it definitely wouldn't work in a worldwide society. Too many people taking advantage of the system, and cooperation is difficult when you're one head among billions. Additionally, you have the problem in which an individual who does better work, or works harder, or contributes more to society does not benefit for doing so. You're actively encouraging sloth.

I also dislike the idea of separating people in terms of interests. We need a wide variety of individuals coming in contact with each other, for one thing. If you don't, you have what's called a caste system, which has received a lot of criticism over the years. Additionally, the idea of eliminating culture and heritage as a defining characteristic is a major problem in my opinion. They're both required for the same reason a large gene pool is required: sometimes, one philosophy, one culture, one religion will do better than another. If we eliminate them, or even take them away from being a focal point of society, you're essentially diluting the gene pool.

That's all I have to say for now. All in all, it's an unrealistic and potentially destructive idea. But then again, I only read half. If you want to, like, summarize it so I'll actually read it, by all means.

**Dratheus** · by **Dratheus** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:28 am

Given that the later half assesses some of what you said, yeah, I guess I'll sum it up. Poop-head. Makin' meh work.

**Pudabudigada** · by **Pudabudigada** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:32 am

Yeah, we actually brought up almost exactly your points Yitik. I think overall, though, that it would work. It's just the alien nature of it that I think would get you.

**Yitik** · by **Yitik** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:27 am

Well, they still have to work, but they will have to work less, is the idea.

How are you going to reduce the amount of work that is required for a society to keep moving?

Basically, there will be a system for working similar to jury duty, in which people are called to work for, say, months at a time, maybe a year, depending. These people will work, and when their “jury duty” is over, other people will take their place.

And in the meantime, the others do...what? Work still needs to get done. Otherwise you have stagnation. Idleness destroys progress, makes it difficult for society to keep running as it is, and raises crime rates.

However, an issue arises; what of professions in which a lot of training is involved? Well, instead of having everyone be elected to do any job, people will be assessed for the beginning of their life; this, along with their personal desires, will be taken into account as to what they will be.

Caste system. Bad idea.

This way, a large group of people will still work in “shifts”, but they will all be trained to do so. So, we still have things getting done, but without the issue of money.
There are also jobs that will be more permanent than others. These jobs will be rewarded, in a sense, perhaps through prestige, or medals, or something of the like.

Reading all this, I still see no reason why I shouldn't do a shit job, or at least not try to excel at my work.

Though people will still have to work, they will now have much more time to do what they enjoy, without the costs of whatever their hobby is. This will also, hopefully, cut down on crime rates with time.After all, in a system where everything is available, why steal?

So people are allowed to just take whatever they want, in whatever quantities?

Of course, there will be those who oppose this system, and there is an allowance for this. Those who do not wish to join this system, will simply remain in their old system, in a separate location in which money still exists, along with regular jobs. They will be allowed to trade with the “majority”, who are in the system.

So you do have state divisions.

At first there would be many issues with this new system, but the idea is that over time they would solve themselves.

Just like everything in politics.

At first, money may still need to exist, depending on how this system develops, for example. And people may still be greedy, and take more than what they really need, and at first an allotment would be needed, though it’s hoped that they will eventually realize that this is unneeded, much as stealing things would be unneeded, given that everyone would have the same opportunities. This system would take years, maybe generations to successfully implement correctly, but in the end, it would be much more efficient than the one we have. The big issue that prevents it, of course, is humanity’s failure to see that what we have now isn’t exactly the best by any means, and other stuff like that.

You know that this is exactly the reasoning behind continued government after the October Revolution? Didn't work out too well.

**Pudabudigada** · by **Pudabudigada** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:38 am

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Copyright

I think that this system would remove the need for copyright, as the reason for its existance; that is, to provide monetary compensation for creators of media, would not be needed in the outlined sysyem. This would of course bring a new age of sharing and a way for even an amateur to be recognised. The creators of works could be compensated by a prefferential treatment with respect to aquisition of luxury items.

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Hypothetical Utopian Society

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